>>582398
Nevermind, I reread some stuff from Thread One and everything became clear.

>>582108
> And the Titovs have been mentioned often enough
That's true but it's also worrying. I think it's important that we meet them, but given what we know about how their magic works, I hope the underlying reason for meeting them isn't that they've been expecting us, y'know?

>Explore (Horizon or somewhere new)
If we're looking for somewhere new to explore, we could always ask around about...
>>/questarch/545873
>A boy a few years older interjects from across the table, "Old Molder is worth seeing too. Not as creepy as Horizon."
Wherever we go, let's try to choose someplace likely to be low drama. We're being unusually insightful here to recognize that mental/emotional energy is a finite resource - let's save some of it for the more pressing items on our list.

>Weren't we going to have a talk or tea or something with Entropy II at some point? He's the closest thing you have to a peer, here.
Agree on this.

>I really think we should make time to learn more about physics, astrophysics, and relevant phenomena and lore for stellar bodies.
Heh. There's something amusing about using Prosaic natural law as a metaphorical mirror here. Anyway, I'm sure there's a library or three in Fortitude somewhere, if we can squeeze it in. Maybe as part of "Experimenting"?

Anyway, these would be my picks, categorized and then ordered by time investment:

Connecting to Those Closest to Us
Catherine: 3 Time, 2 Will.
> This is an important relationship, and one that's heartfelt but still pretty confusing to navigate.
Helping Ashley: 3 Time, 0 Will.
> Spending time at Home is important, but, well, it's your Home. It's a safe place; you should take those simple, honest chores as a chance to relax and rest emotionally/mentally.
More general Kichi stuff: 2 Time, 2 Will.
> Here, on the other hand, your relationship is still growing, and still has difficult tensions to it. You may not need to put in much time, but the time you do put in needs to be careful and attentive to the particular hopes and fears of their hearts.
Tending to Mom's temple: 2 Time, 1 Will.
> Again, this is more physical than emotional/mental in needed effort; it's something we are doing because it feels good to be doing it.

Learning and Exploration
Meditation Practice at Susonov: 3 Time, 1 Will.
> We seem to be taking to this naturally. Put in the time, and don't slack off, but a big Will expenditure seems unnecessary.
Experimenting: 2 Time, 2 Will.
> We have so little understanding of our own powers or how they work. This seems important.
Exploration: 2 Time, 1 Will.
> As mentioned above, let's try to find someplace less stressful than Horizon to do it.
Tea with Entropy Jr: 1 Time, 1 Will.
> It shouldn't take too much time to talk over the state of the causa causans. As for Will... well, we want to pay some attention to this conversation, but I don't expect it to be that stressful. He seems nice.
Sword Practice: 1 Time, 2 Will.
> I briefly considered whether we might want to dip more into unarmed combat (given the whole "nuclear omnivore" thing), but swordfighting is also a familiar thing that connects us to the life we had before. Anyway, no matter what fighting style, we've got a long way to go, so even if it's not that big of a part of our life right now it seems wise to put a good chunk of effort into improving at it.
[Optional] Visit to the Titovs: 1 Time, 2 Will.
> This is something that can wait; if something happens during the month that requires more free Time, I'm in favor of postponing it. But if we do it, let's make sure we have enough emotional pep to handle a family that - if what we've heard is true - may be significantly more troubled than the Kichi.

Time Free: 1-2
Will Free: 2-4
(Depending on whether we do the Titov visit.)

The purpose of the remaining Time is to react to situations for which we didn't plan. 10% isn't ideal as margins go but hopefully it'll be enough. I'm in favor of part-time jobbing for any time that doesn't end up getting used up here.

The remaining Will, on the other hand, is something I feel like makes sense to save for stuff we're already doing - for those cases where, in the middle of power exploration or an Important talk with Catherine or so forth, we can decide, "this is worth giving our all right now" and bumping up our emotional investment significantly.

...okay, people really need to stop formatting the list completely differently each time making it annoying to compare.

>>582408
Only difference I see, compared to >>582146 are:
* Ashely -1 will (0 total)
* Kichi +1 will
* Meditation -1 will
* Explore -1 will
* Titovs +1 will

Mostly minor changes. Putting extra effort into the Titovs is probably worthwhile caution, but I'm not so sure I approve taking effort out of meditation. And I definitely don't approve of putting no effort in at home. Jasper's made it very clear how important she feels having relationships with the people around her is to her, and I don't think she should be ignoring the people who took her in.

> gals guys thing.

Oh sorry. I kind of just assumed. Nursy was a girl, and so were a lot of the air / space spirits, but most of the Time spirits were Mr. So-and-So.

Magnetism spirits were always in pairs...

----

Thanks for the hard work on a schedule. It sounds like we still have some details to work out but the general shape looks good!

>>582408
If you want to put off the Titov visit for a month and recover that time and will for other purposes I could be persuaded. Regarding the rest of your adjustments, I'm not sold on them aside from hypothetically spending more effort on getting to know the Kichi pools if we can pull some out of nowhere, and committing extra effort up-front for meeting the Titovs (if we do so this month).

-I don't want to skimp on what we'd learn and do with the family. Ms. Bentenmaru and Granny Ashley each have a wealth of experience, and they guard where we sleep and the sole temple that we know about which is unequivocally ours. I'm certain they have a lot of useful knowledge to teach us, and perhaps more importantly they have useful perspective we need. One part in sixteen of effort is pretty much a minimum commitment, as is the three time, and I wish we had more to spend here without short-changing other important things.
-I chose a one eighth effort minimum with meditation for thought-out reasons. One is because I'm hoping for rapid progress to a level that aids us generally with tasks. This is also the most likely activity to tangibly develop our will and focus, potentially paying dividends of additional effective time and/or effort to make use of in the future. Improved meditation and dream-control probably helps us with discovering and mastering our other Imperator abilities as well; I'd at least be surprised if it didn't help. Finally, more advanced meditation practice may include hand-to-hand practice here, and if so we may find that intensely valuable.
-I also don't want to skimp on the will-commitment for exploration. This is because exploration actively places us in unexpected, potentially dangerous, profitable and/or teachable circumstances. Also, we need to learn about how economics and civilization works, and some direct observation there would be helpful. Let's start by making up for the fact that we did not grow up in the area and getting to know it and the people in it. We need to do this for many reasons, but one that has tangible payback is to adjust so that Fortitude (primarily the people in it, perhaps also Fortitude itself as an entity) recognizes and accepts us as part of the community more strongly, and helps us working with others more readily.

The general problem is that we have too much to do and not enough time or attention to do it all as fast and well as we'd want. I've more-or-less done what I can for prioritization with our limited information, but that's a workaround instead of a solution. Does anybody have any bright ideas on how to fix, or at least improve, our situation regarding this more general problem? We seem to have collectively decided to delay seeking aid and intervention from friendly Imperators/Excrusians/(others) to alter the limits of what we can get done in a given amount of time. This seems shortsighted to me, but I grant that the risks are unknowable to us without further information. So that leaves us needing other ideas or more information about transcending our limitations.

>>582435
Leaving aside transgender issues, gender uncertainty issues, and Jungian theory, my embodiment as/in a female being is something I'd normally expect to be the primary source of information for such a question. This is outside my knowledge though: I defer to your expertise.
More information about these spirits, what they can do, and what you think it'd take to get some to help us might be helpful.

Also, thank you for directing us to a problem we can make progress on.

Mother McCormic is the lady at Moms temple, and Lady Bentenmaru isn't going to get back for another month. If I have my dates right..She says that a 6 week deployment is crazy short but it feels like a long time for me.

> More information about these spirits, what they can do, and what you think it'd take to get some to help us might be helpful.

Well..they're ..uh spirits, and they do things. Thats not very helpful on my part, but they vary a lot, some of them are probobly dead, but others are probobly part of me right now..its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them.

And others probobly were kicked out of Celestia like I was..

But most of them are going to help me..I think. I mean..I also thought Dad was nice too. So..

Yeah...

As to what they do..they kind of are things, run things for Mom? Like how Nursy would watch me when Mom was busy, or Mr. 2'Oclock would make sure the sky was right at 2'Oclock in the afternoon.

I wonder who was in charge of the night times.

>>582427
>Jasper's made it very clear how important she feels having relationships with the people around her is to her, and I don't think she should be ignoring the people who took her in.
To clarify, I don't mean that she shouldn't give that stuff her effort, so much as that I don't expect it to take so much effort. That said, I suppose putting in at least 1 Will makes sense on the level that we don't want it to be as though we don't care.

>[...]they vary a lot, some of them are probably dead, but others are probably part of me right now..its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them.

I was specifically wondering if there were any that would make good tutors, guards, scouts and practice partners for taking care of business. You also mentioned 'time' spirits and this made me hopeful we could get them to either help with optimizing your schedule or maybe helping you get more done in the same amount of time by making it work differently for you (or something like that).
We also could use a manual or reference for all the powers you're supposed to get, or could get, so we can pick what we want to work on first. I don't know if they would be able to help with that but the sorts of powers that spirits have might be a starting point for figuring out the sorts of powers that Imperators which are stars might have: I've been guessing that prediction, foresight and discernment of truth and reality is stuff you could do because of their metaphorical relations to light (supported by legends of light- and sun-related beings that could allegedly do those sorts of things).

>>582408 and >>582427
So, let me point back at my draft of our schedule. Do my explanations for why I don't like these changes make enough sense to agree with, and what does everybody think about putting off the Titov appointment for next month?

>>582514
He was describing your home at Ashley's as a kind of temple.

And yes, 6 weeks is a pretty short deployment, I'd say. It's a long time to wait, but it's not long at all if you're trying to travel and get something done. Makes me wonder what's important enough that they need to deploy, but simple enough that it can be finished so soon.

>I wonder who was in charge of the night times.
The moon? Although maybe not, what with the possible betrayal and hell thing.

>And others probobly were kicked out of Celestia like I was..
Which possibly makes finding them or gathering them another longer term goal.

>its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them
Wait, that's new. We warned you not to go big earlier, for fear your big form could be harmful to the people or enviroment around you. (The Promised of Fire's worry is a little more relevant if you actually are a ball of fire). But are you saying you couldn't be big right now, even if you wanted? Or just that some of these things are hard to think about / visualize from your current perspective?

>So, let me point back at my draft of our schedule. Do my explanations for why I don't like these changes make enough sense to agree with, and what does everybody think about putting off the Titov appointment for next month?
Oh, I thought I made it clear I like the your schedule more than the suggested revisions.

I'd... prefer not to put the Tiltovs off, simply because it seems what they offer is a fairly significant option to handle certain threats and situations. How or even whether we choose to use that option later is up in the air, but I'd prefer to get that option on the table before we need it, rather than after. It seems like they tie into enough things that we can't afford not to have knowledge of them.

That said, if the consensus is we need to push it off a month to be more prepared, or so we can devote more resources to the encounter, I'll accept it.

>>582579
Sorry, you did make that clear but I'm never sure how many of us voices are interested in speaking an opinion, and I don't want to assume that two is a majority.
And now we have me holding neutral and you in favour of holding the (first) Titov meeting sooner.

> short deployment.
I think it's a navigation/mapping thing? And I think you can sort of cheat with how speeds work on Big Lake.

Otherwise they really shouldn't be able to trade with Mars. Which apparently the mars bars aren't from? But the really good chocolate is?

....Martian chocolate?
Why not, in order for there to be martian agriculture involving terrestrial species there would have to be extensive terraforming, enclosed habitat construction and/or horticultural engineering involved. If you're going through that much trouble already why wouldn't you make yourself a production chain for the desirable products of theobromo cacao?
While everybody else is busy deciding to agree, disagree or pay attention to other questions regarding our prospective schedule I find myself curious about our local world here. Just what is reachable via this big lake or otherwise within your plausible range of exploration?

> Wait, that's new. We warned you not to go big earlier, for fear your big form could be harmful to the people or enviroment around you. (The Promised of Fire's worry is a little more relevant if you actually are a ball of fire). But are you saying you couldn't be big right now, even if you wanted? Or just that some of these things are hard to think about / visualize from your current pe5rspective?

Sorry. I am pretty sure I could tUrn big, and even control it a lot more then prosaic reality would say.

What I meant is that if mom is dead. .. then I think I am the Sun in some sense, but I seem to have trouble like doing things with it. Like it's a limb that's fallen asleep or a government I can't talk to.

Huh. I wonder if assuming the position of the sun means your big form is now more grown up than you. Like, you've inherited a body all at once you don't know how to use, rather than slowly growing into one.

That or the difficulty might be that you're now tied to a physical thing, fixed in a way you weren't before.

Possibly something we can experiment with later. Possibly something we could get some clues towards from Entropy II, if the big / small thing is common across imperators.

> Huh. I wonder if assuming the position of the sun means your big form is now more grown up than you.

That makes a lot of sense.

Okay, going with :

Ability Experimenting 2/21, 2/16
Catherine 3/21, 2/16
Entropy II 1/21, 1/16
Exploration 2/21, 2/16
Help Ashley 3/21, 1/16
Job Search 0/0
Kichi Family/Pools 2/21, 1/16
Susonov Meditation 3/21, 2/16
Sword Practice 1/21, 2/16
Temple of Mom 2/21, 1/16
Visit Titovs 1/21, 1/16.
Uncommitted 1/21, 1/16.

We don't have consensus, but it seems like the most popular schedule.
I'm going to be fairly busy. I like it!

Fortitude is a good place to be busy. Hopefully we'll learn several things quickly and make some good friends to help us see what we're missing.

We don't have any particular order assigned (and it's probably not worth the effort to micromanage that) but I would recommend mixing things up a little bit. Don't say, blow all your Catherine time at once, or all the temple time, etc. Space things out.

The Titovs PowderedLight 2014/07/16(Wed)22:47 No. 584429 ID: 83bab8
File 140557607335.gif - (55.06KB , 300x200 , 1-4-84.gif )

I really think I am getting the hang of helping out. I know what laundry soap is. I know how to wash dishes. I can even use a mop without tripping now.

Cooking is a little more crazy, but I can chop veggies, and boil water. I just am not allowed to choose the spices. Even if I don't use anything that humans don't eat, apparently no one else finds cinnamon jalapenos bland and needing soy sauce, well it reminds one of the boy's of what a vampire they hang out with at School eats, but. . .

Anyway I wanted to visit the last shrine family. There's a creek, it's banks and bottom covered in tiny white crystals, that has cut its way through a tumbled slough of rocks, nothing seems to grow on those banks, and no birds or fish are in the clear water. It smells salty and the fishy smell that pervades most of fortitude changes to mildew. If Catherine tasted bright this smells dark, if Entropy's blood was sweet, this was faintly bitter, and very very salty.

The hills here must have been much steeper, maybe cliff like, before these rocks came tumbling down. Getting into Horizon from fortitude would have been a lot harder then. Though it sounds like Horizon is less than a hundred years old. If I understood the history right.

Once I am just a little father up the landslide, past a boulder the size of a house, a building that must be the Buddhist church is visible. It looks a lot like the Susonov's but darker and smaller and worn. Black tiles stand over a open building of dark walls and dirty white trim. A open door has a sign saying "visitors welcome" and a complicated series of dates and times below.

Any last minute advice before I go inside and talk to someone?

>I know what laundry soap is. I know how to wash dishes.
Lessons hopefully learned without eating either.

>and boil water
Under your own power?

>spices
Interesting. You're apparently drawn to other forms of heat. Or just intensity?

>Any last minute advice before I go inside and talk to someone?
Thinking back to Francis' advice. >>559213

It might be worthwhile to mentally prepare yourself, a little. Outline objectives: what are the things you want to accomplish here today? What might they want of you? What might you be willing to give up for your goals, what price might you place on their requests?

It's kind of difficult to be too specific in advance since we're here primarily to learn, but even getting in the right frame of mind might help you prepare for the goal / tool / exchange mindset their power operates by. If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.

> Lessons hopefully learned without eating either.

I didn't eat any dishes, no. >_<

> It's kind of difficult to be too specific in advance since we're here primarily to learn, but even getting in the right frame of mind might help you prepare for the goal / tool / exchange mindset their power operates by. If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.

Hmm. I am willing to give up some time and effort, and even commit to some future spending of such, but..not really anything more then that.

Err I have about 5 μ石Ք from my alowence that I could spend. Its enough to buy 3 or 4 ice cream cones.

Everything else I have I think I kind of need.

What do I want..

Well I would like to learn about the book the story about Mom was in, and why I should talk to these people before reading it.

And maybe about this "Iolithae Septimian", the Deceiver?

(Huh, link 404s. Let's try that again: >>/questarch/559213 )

>What do I want
A good place to start, that shouldn't cost us much, I'd expect. I might also add you're here to try and understand them better, but maybe that's more of a consequence of interaction than something to be traded for.

Other possible considerations are containment / dealing with the entropy-letter or the jacket, if you think either of those are still a problem. Although I'm not sure we want to start off asking for magical favors with hazardous materials. Cost might be more than you want for an initial offering.

We're interested in what they know and how they know it; they seem to have had some contact with Excrusians and possibly Imperators as well. We're also interested in their advice about weaponry and what they think our challenges are, if they figure out what you are as well as who.
Finally, they were said to be good at handling curses, which may be important for getting a sword. That would be if you feel like attempting to get one from out in the Outside where the ruins and remnants are full of valuable, but hazardous, things.

>>584431
>If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.
No long-term commitments. Helping with this or that thing is fine, but it should be well-defined help with an unambiguous and finite goal.

>>584557
>Other possible considerations are containment / dealing with the entropy-letter or the jacket, if you think either of those are still a problem. Although I'm not sure we want to start off asking for magical favors with hazardous materials. Cost might be more than you want for an initial offering.
Eh, maybe not the kind of thing you want to be talking about with people you don't already trust. Especially if we want to keep the chances low that our presence here is part of a Big Ask on their part.

A room, darkly PowderedLight 2014/07/21(Mon)00:26 No. 585042 ID: 58716f
File 140592760390.jpg - (14.66KB , 340x270 , il_340x270_314061539.jpg )

A young man sits in one corner of the room, whittling a hunk of wood with a small black bladed dagger.
A girl Jasper's age sits reading a thick hardback and scribbling notes on a piece of paper already dark with ink and graphite.
Both of them seem to be somehow staring at Jasper even as they continue to work.

Jasper takes a couple of steps more into the room and clears her throat, "Hel..." She starts only to be interrupted by the girl. "Do you love Heaven, Jasper?" She speaks with a casual precision unsuited to her age. The ravens in the stark ink drawing behind her take off, silently crawing.

"Wha? What? Of . ." Jasper starts to reply and then stops, pausing, listening to something only she can hear.

Okay, voices. Why do I feel like this is dangerous? Like I need you?

Because it obviously is, you were made the moment you stepped in the door and that is probably because someone or something else is informing them.

"I'm sorry, that's a little bit personal of a question to ask someone when I don't know who you are, and when I also don't know who it is that informed you who I am. May I have full introductions as to the other present and involved parties here?"

>Why do I feel like this is dangerous? Like I need you?
Well, for one thing, because that's a loaded question.

It presupposes your identity, and that you have a relationship with heaven. Answering means confirming your identity (not that it's worth trying to conceal it or play dumb at the moment), and taking a position on something we're not clear about. It's also emotionally loaded and rather close to home for you- it strikes to your uncertainty about everything that happened (and exactly how much different groups / people were to blame, or what role they played).

And this is coming from people who have been described as prone to using people (and using them up) and breaking hearts, and whose power is supposedly connected to clarity of purpose or desire. Taking a position here could give them power over us (a yea or nea for or against heaven could tie us to that choice, if their powers facilitate it). Not answering definitively introduces uncertainty, which is also dangerous.

The question is loaded to put you at a disadvantage, both in how you might answer, and how it might put you mentally and/or emotionally off-balance.

>What say
If an up or down answer is dangerous, and an uncertain answer is dangerous, then maybe the best answer is a non-answer.

"How I feel about heaven was much easier to express when it was closer to home."

>someone or something else
Yeah, some guiding force would explain recognizing you, or the question that doesn't seem appropriate to the girl. Maybe you're not the only one getting outside (inside?) input on her lines. (Ashely said they had some kind of monster imprisoned, maybe it's that?).

"It seems you have the advantage of me. May I ask to whom I am speaking?"

We are all mad here. PowderedLight 2014/07/21(Mon)09:39 No. 585100 ID: 58716f
File 140596076052.jpg - (8.84KB , 207x244 , images (3).jpg )

The ravens shift until the the spaces between them become the pink stained teeth of a gruesome smile. A smile that laughs at just how much evil there is in the world. How quickly the righteous take up the tools of the fallen.

"This girl's name is Isabella Titov, daughter of Iskandar Titov, heir to the Titov Temple." The girl says, closing her book.

Bubbles of pure white appear on the painting, like salt thrown on a watercolor. They drive away the pink, leaving only an ink drawing of a stark, leaf-less tree with three ravens playing.

"Jason is the heir, devil child." The young man says rising. "If he heard you. ."

"He would do what? Beat me? Chain me? Cut out my tongue? We both know that's what the Innocent would want." Isabella replies un-worried. walking to a shelf piled with books. "You don't even have the balls to threaten me properly. Dog."

An impotent rage seems to burn within the man's eyes but he just keeps carving.

Isabella takes a thin volume titled "The Scripture of the Tablets of the Temple at the Shore, or What Must Not be Spoken" off the shelf. She places a finger to her lips and shushes the book, the knotted ties holding it shut un knotting themselves.
She opens the book and presents a page on which is written a single line: Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.

"We are the cloth of her tears. The jailers of her rage." She says. "Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him."

Did you speak, Jasper, or did she answer your question unasked? (The later would imply that she was perceptive enough to read you, or that she had some way of knowing what you're going to say, or that we discussed internally).

Isabella's speaking in the third person and her references to another support the idea that she's being guided, or controlled.

There's apparently some contentious competition of some kind between at least two factions- Isabella / what's controlling her, Jason (who considers himself heir), the Innocent (context suggests Jason wouldn't want to give him/her/it what it wants. Not clear if it's the thing with Isabella or not).

>Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.
>We are the cloth of her tears. The jailers of her rage.
References to their heritage? They're the heirs to some kind of higher being, who created them, or endowed them. They seal / guard her or a part of her? Hard to tell distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.

The factions maybe come from the different ways they see this 'benefactor'? Isabella communing with it, the status quo containing and/or using it?

>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." (She wants to play with double meanings? We'll give back some of our own).

"I wept."

I wish I'd said this earlier. I wasn't thinking straight - I was too worried about this visit to think its implications through - and so I didn't remember the most important thing to remember, going into it: your nature is that of sunlight and hope, and hope finds a way. Be on your guard - especially given the circumstances - but remember that these people have no real power to make you do anything. You stood against one prophecy already, when you first met Catherine; your light can shine here too.

>Jasper starts to reply and then stops, pausing, listening to something only she can hear.
If I may ask: what did you hear? Or was that just our conversation?

>Isabella's speaking in the third person and her references to another support the idea that she's being guided, or controlled.
Or that she doesn't think of herself as a person.

One thing's for sure, though: she's very good at asking leading questions, and so far it's made it easy for her to lead this conversation, too. I'm not the best conversationalist, but perhaps we should be looking for a way to brush off her next question, and switch to discussing family laundry with the boy before she can regain the initiative.

>Do you love Heaven, Jasper?
>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?

> Did you speak, Jasper, or did she answer your question unasked?
I..I spoke. Sorry I got distracted. This place, it doesn't feel like Fortitude; I can feel my emotions wash into the world around me, and wash back in again. I..I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion. It's hard to put what I mean in words: There's a magic here that is as much of Truth as it is of the Outside. I think Isabella might have bit off more then she can chew.

> Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.
This isn't in English, by the way, and the translation is a little rough. In the original there is no seperate "she", and the verbs are marked "far-away immediate-experience". So you could translate it "I feel the far-away Chaos-woman-thrown tears. I feel the far-away Chaos-woman-thrown punches." to get a little of the oddness of verb form, but that gets the sentence structure totally wrong as the sentences are about Chaos, not the writer, and gah. It kind of sucks that the Curse of the Tower sill affects you and I talking.

> Hard to tell/distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.
How do you mean?

They sure are good at getting my attention.

> If I may ask: what did you hear? Or was that just our conversation?
Just you all.

>...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?
Ohh.. yeah she might be.

>I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion.
Agreed. That would both fit with what we've heard about the Tiltovs before, and with Isahella's apparent tactics. She's trying to keep you confused, and off balance.

>I think Isabella might have bit off more then she can chew.
I wouldn't be surprised. Still, that doesn't mean this isn't dangerous for us.

>>Hard to tell/distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.
>How do you mean?
I mean, if the things she's saying are literally true, or if they're allegories or metaphorical, or allusions or references to the things she's actually trying to say. There's not a lot of context to make sense of it.

>>...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?
>Ohh.. yeah she might be.
Might be a double purpose. Questioning who you are forces you to think about it. Which results in either confusion as you struggle to define yourself (and confusion is bad here) or it results in you defining yourself in clear terms (which might help reduce you to goals / wants / purposes for their magic to deal with).

I am rather tempted to call them out on how rude it is to pre-emptively attack a visitor that didn't even come for a conflict. If they can't even respect the notion of hospitality I'm not sure there's any meaningful intercourse we can have with these people.

Well it's not like they bit me or anything. They just are being kind of annoying/creepy.

>I..I spoke. Sorry I got distracted. This place, it doesn't feel like Fortitude; I can feel my emotions wash into the world around me, and wash back in again. I..I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion. It's hard to put what I mean in words: There's a magic here that is as much of Truth as it is of the Outside.
Oooooooooooh. Okay. Yeah, I think I know what you mean. I think we can work with this.

Everything's gummed up with old patterns here. Isabella's quoting stuff, showing you old books. The boy is nursing old grudges. But it's also a place where emotions matter. So what do you think of these people? Creepy? Scary? Sad? Someone you hunger to understand? Knowing how you feel towards them means knowing what we have to work with.

Meanwhile...
>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
I can't outdo >>585116 for a straightforward reaction to this. But as an alternative, we could always answer a question with another question. Something like... "So they [father and `she`] knew each other?"
That'd be a hint about Isabella's patroness, even if she doesn't answer.

I'd still like to give the boy a chance to get back into the conversation. Maybe ask him about the sculpture he's carving?

> Well it's not like they bit me or anything. They just are being kind of annoying/creepy.
As someone that exists within you primarily as thoughts and feelings I tell you that an attempt to destabilize and subvert your mind and emotions is an attack. They are attacking who you are instead of your physical form, but it is no less an attack.

I think that this is cowardly, misguided, excessively hostile and paranoid of them. They need to let go of their fear and hostility, you should help them with that and give them some cause for hope.

>>585434
I don't know. It's not nice exactly, but messing with / testing a Power than enters your domain isn't exactly unprecedented. And, arguably, just being who and what we are, showing up unannounced and uninvited could be interpreted as an attack.

Not that I really have any doubts as to the intentions here, but they've hardly done anything we can call out very strongly.

>>585434
>>585437
Mm. Right now what we've seen is Isabella doing the Creepy Child thing and knowing more than she should. Meanwhile the boy has done basically nothing, other than talk back to Isabella once and then shut up. Is this a place that needs better lighting? My intuition says yes. But I think the evidence is thin on the ground that any of the stuff that's happened so far is out of harmful intent, at least towards us.

"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." Jasper says, starting defiantly at the creepy girl. "I wept."

Isabella smiles sadly. "No one can truly understand another. The wall between souls, the 'What is it to be a bat.' 'And in loving we would die, not as Juliet died, but as the night dies that loves the dawn.' In truly understanding another we would become them, and loose ourself." As she turns her head you see a gold and silver earring, a simple stud, that catches the light.

"Do you think you can save us? Our fate was long-ago written. To live and die in service to false hope, to have the love and truth and being of us drained, to redeem an unredeemable monster. Fortitude says work will be rewarded, but no countable infinity can fill the interval."

"Can you survive as we have?" She asks. "Or will you forget your roots and wither away like a painful daydream?"

I'm not sure if I've got this, but here's my first stab at it:

"I don't think my fate is written yet, and even if it is I am an author of fate as well and can revise.
"I wasn't coming to do battle with what you are, or were, though. I was visiting to learn, pay my respects to what is, and look for possible friends, teachers and allies. Finding out that so much of what goes on here is also what isn't is a little bit of a surprise, but hopefully not cause for conflict.
"If you don't mind my asking, what does redemption mean here?"

>>585674
I feel like the first line - the aside arguing about fate - may not go across well. Worried she'd take it as a platitude, or else as showing off. But I support re-emphasizing that we visited, not for some grand purpose, but mostly just to meet them and maybe talk about some stuff.

Come to think of it... if we really want to impress on Isabella that hope can overcome fate, I can think of a slightly better way than words, if you can manage it while carrying on a conversation at the same time. It's one we've done before, if you recall. >>/questarch/566046 Do you suppose, if we turn the conversation to more mundane things, she'd be willing to continue this conversation on the porch - get out of the stuffiness of the house a bit? Do you suppose it'd be rude to ask?

Ahh. Philosophy. She's referencing things that are actually somewhat familiar, here. Because you're different than other people (or beings) you cannot hope to understand them, without becoming them. At which point you've lost yourself, anyways. It's an argument of futility and hopelessness- that true understanding, sympathy, love aren't possible.

>Can you survive as we have?" She asks. "Or will you forget your roots and wither away like a painful daydream?
I intend to survive. But as you have? You don't seem particularly pleased with your survival, serving false hope, being drained, counting to infinity. No, not as you have, I think.

>what do
...okay, we've had the feelings of the temple's region alluded to (as much of Truth as it is of the Outside), Isabella made a direct reference to the Fortitude's region property (work will be rewarded) and the topic of conversation shifted to the impossibility of understanding / empathy and hopelessness.

To me, this really says Jasper should turn on her suffusion of hope. Actions speak louder than words, and this refutes both her points- we're sharing a genuine feeling without subsuming someone, and we're saying there is (or, really defining that there is) hope in even what appears to be a hopeless situation.

Might also serve to reinforce the Truth aspects. Even if it reinforces the outside, I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. If Isabella bit off more than she could chew already, we'd just be making things harder for her.

>a gold and silver earring, a simple stud, that catches the light
Kind of an opposite of yours. Simple instead of intricate, reflects light instead of refracting it, metal instead of crystal.

Maybe it helps her with something, the way yours helps you with light and color? Given the context, if yours was born of hope, maybe hers was created for the opposite emotion? It might even be what she was using to manipulate the ink drawing. (Maybe manipulation of shadows and the spaces between them, instead of color? An opposite means to a similar end).

There's also the fact that mother McCormick described a young girl wearing a single earring as part of an outfit of mourning. You haven't described the rest of her outfit, so I can't be sure, but loss would fits in the context of her speech. It's a guess, but maybe that's worth following up on.

You speak of loss. You know who I weep for (touch your earring). Who do you wear yours for?

"I wasn't coming to do battle with what you are, or were, though. I was visiting to learn, pay my respects to what is, and look for possible friends, teachers and allies. Finding out that so much of what goes on here is also what isn't is a little bit of a surprise, but hopefully not cause for conflict." Jasper says assuming a open, near surrendering pose. A perfume of summer grass wafts in the room, and the painting shifts again becoming a crow chick sheltered by a mother's wings.

Jasper's words and body language seem to make Isabella nervous, her eyes and lips tightening slightly. She pauses and backs up against the wall. A quiet, awkward moment is broken by a snort from the man, startling Jasper.

Trying to recover, the young goddess asks "You speak of loss. You know who I weep for (touch your earring). Who do you wear yours for?"

This seems to bring Isabella back to firmer ground. She smiles, and taunts "You don't recognize it? It marks a hero's fate: a child of two worlds, who is haunted by her mother's legacy; It marks the history threatening to come due."

Her smile turns kind and vicious at once. "It's for you."

Hmm. Openness and non-aggression seemed to disarm her, there. While needling a potential weakness gave her back her balance. She responded to your attack, or lack thereof.

I guess that might be a way to 'win' this, then. Not fighting. Leaving yourself open, bending with attacks instead of hammering home. The willow, not the oak. The heron wading in the rushes.

Sort of makes sense. She's comfortable with wants and needs, attack and taking. Tends towards spite and paranoia. We can feed that, or we can play to 'softer' emotions and leave her disarmed.

>It's for you.
Interesting. The parallels are deliberate then. Might also explain why it grants a similar ability (assuming my guess about that was right). Although she didn't need prior exposure to bind that (unless she made it now?).

Try to respond like you did before. No double meanings or attacks, be kind, earnest, and open here. Don't take umbrage at her attempt to work you up.

I appreciate the sentiment, and your concern, but I'd like to reassure you it's somewhat premature to mourn for me. I'm not threatened by my history, I've been seeking it out. It's part of the reason I'm here, actually.

(Ties back into one of the objectives you outlined for this meeting. So you deflect her attack both by being open and nice again, and by displaying a 'want' contrary to her attack. Takes the air out of it).

>>586402
>(unless she made it now?).
She's only had one opportunity; we hadn't said much about ourselves by the time she showed it to us.
>"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." Jasper says, starting defiantly at the creepy girl. "I wept."

What were we sharing with her, when we said that, I wonder? "Our sorrows?" Is she about sorrows, the way we're about hopes? >>/questarch/554754

But then, that doesn't quite fit the meaning she finds in it when she says that
>It marks a hero's fate[...] the history threatening to come due.
We talked about our past tragedy, not about our future destiny.

I am trying to remember if, perhaps, we might have met Isabella before.

>>586521
I'd guess that the opposite of hopes for the future would be inevitable futures, predetermined by the past. Fates, more than sorrows, I think. Although, they're related, if past sorrows define future fates, or if yo experience sorrow at a fate that by definition does not allow hope for another outcome.

And I suppose the cause and meaning can be divorced. Our earring was crystallized by the glassmaker's hopes, but it's a symbol of mourning for Jade. Similarly, even if Isabella she wears it for Jasper, that doesn't mean it's of Jasper.

>>586551
>Similarly, even if Isabella she wears it for Jasper, that doesn't mean it's of Jasper.
Ah. That'd explain it, sure enough; it'd be the same clever double meaning as we ourselves used.

Aha. I think I've figured out the stud now: The picture we saw in the basement, of what might be little sister Senko.

"Does that mean you're in contact with my little sister? Tell her hi, sorry I haven't written to her yet, and ask her if she wants me to send her something in the mail."

"No, she doesn't need anything from you yet. She just might need a T.A. or a class president if you are interested in the position? Its still a ways off of course.˝ Isabella says her cadence making the kind words sound like a rehearsed threat.

Well, if she's been in communication with Senko, that explains the similarity in theme in the arguments. I even though to myself that this was almost practice for what she's going to bring. Guess that's no coincidence.

I'm still thinking we might want to try the nice offensive again, see if it disarms her.

>reply
"Hmm, you're right probably right. It is a ways off, and too soon to choose what I hope to be doing in school. I'll consider it, though." (Emphasizing choices and hope instead of fated outcomes for the future).

"I am glad she found someone to talk to, at least." (Forcing Isabella into a role as family or friend (or a friend of family), instead of the antagonist she's seemingly more comfortable as).

I think now is a good opportunity to ask about the book you were curious about... the one with your mom in it.

Unless you're not comfortable with the idea of talking with Isabella about that anymore.

>>587285
Maybe something like "while we're on the subject of my family and history then, there's something I wanted to ask after."

Being clear about our wants is supposed to be good when dealing with the Titovs, and not following up on our past rebuts us being afraid of the past coming due, and reasserts that we're her to learn, for help. Which disarmed her before.

Perhaps reasserting that we're here to learn, find friends, allies and teachers, and pay our respects to what is would be a good idea.
We could expand on that by saying, "I don't know as much as we need to about who mom was and what she did, or dad either. Anything you would like to share about them would be helpful. You also seem to know a fair bit about how to approach and talk to Excrusians; do you also know about the same with Imperators?"

PowderedLight 2014/08/03(Sun)09:33 No. 587772 ID: 8d213c
File 140708362738.jpg - (31.00KB , 380x250 , gossip.jpg )

"while we're on the subject of my family and history then, there's something I wanted to ask after." Jasper starts. "I don't know as much as we need to about who mom was and what she did, or dad either. Anything you would like to share about them would be helpful. You also seem to know a fair bit about how to approach and talk to Excrucians; do you also know about the same with Imperators?"

“We have stories and visions. Hints and allegations. But Imperators have no reason to show themselves, Excrusians often like being noisy. Canceling tv shows, casting shadows over the sun, tearing down theologies. While the Imperators hold their secrets tight to the chest. We have secret knowledge of course. Curiosity has been our doom as much as love or fear or hope.” Isabella says standing taller, more sure.

“But the thing about secret knowledge is that while knowing is dangerous. Sharing is what brings attention.” She smiles.

“What can you do for us? Or rather, what do you think you can do for us.” She says smirking, pride at knowing a secret Jasper does not.

>Imperators have no reason to show themselves, Excrusians often like being noisy
Almost an amusing dichotomy. The established powers, part of creation, are the hidden ones while the interlopers from void are the obvious.

>Sharing is what brings attention
You already have my attention. And possibly, any attention that follows me. A price already paid, as it were.

>What can you do for us? Or rather, what do you think you can do for us.
I suspect you could do a great deal for them. More than that information is worth, certainly. The question is more, what can we do that appropriately reciprocates what's she asking?

Offering to save them is worth more than she's offering. But perhaps... would she care to experience hope that isn't false?

Going with the idea of offering suffusion of hope, instead of using it as an attack or counter.

>>587772
Isabella loves her dangerous questions.

Sometimes the only thing more dangerous is an answer.

Whatever we say here, let's remember our spending limits.
>>584455
>Hmm. I am willing to give up some time and effort, and even commit to some future spending of such, but..not really anything more then that.
>Err I have about 5 μ石Ք from my alowence that I could spend. Its enough to buy 3 or 4 ice cream cones.
>Everything else I have I think I kind of need.
Let's also try to keep it closed-ended.

>>587781
>But perhaps... would she care to experience hope that isn't false?
I like this, although I wonder if it's the kind of thing that she'll laugh about. Then again... these folks have a problem with feeling hopeful and real. Maybe the potential silliness of the offer doesn't matter compared to the fact that it's a way for her to get medicated without gobbling Outside Dust.

>Maybe the potential silliness of the offer
I was thinking there's a sort of appropriateness in offering a taste of hope for the future in exchange for a glimpse into past events. It's not an exact equivalence, but there's a kind of symmetry, there. Future for past, openness for secrets.

That and maybe, I'm not sure she's allowed to turn down something she as good as asked for, earlier. Titov magic is about the exchange of wants and needs for prices set, isn't it?

The hope infusion takes a while to build up, So maybe I should keep Isabella talking or something as I get it ready?
Shouldn't take too long. One more of her speeches I think.

I suppose stalling is simpler when the opposition is so speech-susceptible.

Ideas: if you wanted to stay on topic, you could comment on the inherent irony in secrets being better kept in the sun than in shadow. She'd probably jump at the chance to slander the Imperators, or wax on their hypocrisy. Or we could raise the point about their having already caught attention (as if we're haggle down the cost they would incur) and let her rebut it. I like that one less though, as it comes across as more of a threat, or has worse implications at least (I've already messed things up for you by coming here).

Or you could quibble over the wording of her request. It's not a matter of what we can do for them, or even what we think can do for them. It's a matter of what we're willing to do for them. You could interpret her question as a trap to pay to trick you into offering to pay too high a price- naming everything you're capable of (or that you think you're capable of), rather than making a price clear in your heart. She'd respond to that, in some way (pleased or disappointed you caught it, waxing on about the nature of prices?).

"If curiosity is so dangerous for you and sharing secrets is what makes it dangerous, your main line of 'business' here in town seems like it's an outright hazard that may be avoidable. Has your family considered operating a business venture of some other kind that relies upon your secrets less? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to take up some kind of craft or making a set of trading relationships with the abilities you can call on."

Speaking. PowderedLight 2014/08/04(Mon)21:31 No. 588173 ID: d87b1e
File 140721309137.jpg - (4.12KB , 139x160 , images.jpg )

> "If curiosity is so dangerous for you and sharing secrets is what makes it dangerous, your main line of 'business' here in town seems like it's an outright hazard that may be avoidable. Has your family considered operating a business venture of some other kind that relies upon your secrets less? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to take up some kind of craft or making a set of trading relationships with the abilities you can call on."

"My brother does as you suggest. Carving his little ravens. Selling them like a common merchant. But few ask for the secrets you do. Few would even know what to ask. I hear that on the Earth that was, magic and sorcery are rare and hidden, but you questions are deeper then that. Even in a land of wonders, the truth is sickly and careful, and stronger then a storm. And we have practice not speaking of the sacred."

It's a subtle change, nothing looks or even feels differnt, but I can feel my power soaking into the wood and dirt and flesh and air.

It is calming and invigorating, like suckling at my mothers breast, listening to her heart beat. It takes a little while for Isabella to notice, and for me to notice that she had continued to talk.

"They..no..I..no they...we." and something breaks in side Isabella. "You loved her didn't you. You really loved her. So stupid.." she mutters in my general direction, confused and hurt. "What..what. Did. You. Do?" she whispers her confusion changing to cold anger.

Not exactly pleased, is she. Downside with presenting instead of offering I suppose. Still, I think this might still work.

How's the rest of the shrine reacting? The ink drawing? The brother?

>What. Did. You. Do.
"I thought of something I could do for you. Something true and secret. Something sacred you did speak of.

Hope."

>You loved her didn't you. You really loved her. So stupid..
>hurt
"...you really did weep for me."

(Showing actual concern for the pain she's feeling in regards to you when you turned on the emotions on).

Kind of nicely turns her words around. Presents what you're offering both equal to what you're asking, and as something she asked for. And the second bit is to disarm her anger by trying to comfort her pain, and turning what she tried to use as an attack before into something genuine.

"Sorry, I mean to offer it as a gift: Hope, possibly enough to break the fate that binds you to annihilation if you want it."

Make it clear that if she does not want it you will stop.

The Tower Part One PowderedLight 2014/08/07(Thu)02:48 No. 588542 ID: d87b1e
File 140740491860.png - (606.02KB , 600x942 , tarot_card_ii___the_high_priestess_by_rotegruetze-.png )

Jasper starts to answer, but stops, caught up in looking at the ink painting behind Isabella.
It depicts a crow speaking. In that same strange script the book was in is written: "Before the Names of Earth, was Chaos."
A challenge, to the Gods of Earth.

A "Shit!" Is yelled from behind you, startling both you and Isabella. "Isabella take your plaything to School and get the rest of the Family. I'm going to be at the Lower Shrine." Her brother continues, as the girl grabs Jasper with surprising force, dragging her out the door.

"The King of the World rages no more." The raven silently speaks.

Isabella is dragging Jasper to Horizon, as lightning strikes behind them.

The raven's script echoes in her mind. "The King of the World rages no more."

Jasper can feel the words trying to escape her Head, trying to tear out and shape the world.

Isabella says "Don't speak them. But most of all do not forget them. They are sacred."

>The Tower
Oh, the disaster card. That's reassuring. Although it's mediated by a high priestess, here.

If I had to guess, we inadvertently woke something up? Something that shouldn't be up, if the brother is going to deal with it, and Isabella is going to collect others for reinforcements.

>dragging
Increase your pace, so she's not dragging you. A simple, non-verbal assent. That you're trying to help, not being compelled.

Picking up the pace, I match the run a few hundred meters then drop to a jog, then run again pace Isabella is setting.

She seems to be in more pain then I am, but I can't quite run fast enough to keep her from dragging me. Though when she drops to a jog I can keep up.

It only takes a couple of these before we are past the rubble and into Horizon proper. With its glaring gargoyles and looming mists.

Isabella looks small and scared. A lost child.

And then a cruel and jeering smile comes to her face and a ...metal box with arms and legs and a pulsating pink mass in the center appears and directs us through the nearly empty streets and halls.

Its not easy telling if we are inside or not, I can't see the sky because of the mist, or buildings the lean towards one another, and sometimes clouds or rain from indoors.

I can feel my lips start to move, when Isabella looks at me. "Don't speak them." she says, forcing a piece of paper into my hands. I scribble down “The King of the World rages no more.” over and over again, frantically, trying to get the words _out_.

II follow her following the box, and it isn't long before we are in the court of Rex Mundi.

A tall tall man sits at a throne, a black scarab, upside down, etched on to his throne, and painted into his clothes, and set upon every surface in the room not worn by his guests.

At his right sits Entropy II, in his blindingly clean and white clothes.

Across from him is what can only be the rest of the Titov’s. Pale skinned, and dark of hair of eyes.

The tall man sneers and gestures with his hand. The box corrodes and rots before Jasper’s eyes, the pink mass rotting away into the wind with a foul smell.

“Father!” Entropy II yells, terrified. “Its her words!”

“Lies, all they fight with is lies.” the tall man growls, gestures, and time starts stuttering, jumping forward in pieces, flowing then jumping ahead without reason.

Suddenly, Isabella is bloody and her clothes burnt.

Suddenly everyone’s moved, the men and women that must be the rest of Isabella’s family are rushing for the door.

Suddenly the room is empty except for the tall man and Entropy II.

“Please, Father, stop this. You know this is what she wanted. You could have killed me in a hundred ways each day! Remember the Plan!” the young man is pleading with the tall man as a strange rage twists his swarthy features.

The smell of sulfur and ozone fills the room. I can feel the strange skipping sensation try to grab hold of me, but I slip away from it.

I am the Sun, I Rise Anew.

>Isabella looks small and scared. A lost child. And then a cruel and jeering smile comes to her face
Huh. You're not the only one who wears another face, here.

Okay, so it looks like most the Titovs were away at some audience with Entropy Senior when you came to visit triggered things. Which seems like a hell of a coincidence. Did this 'she' arrange for your arrival and their being away to coincide? It you woke up something that was sealed, that suggests it already had some influence.

>Isabella is bloody and her clothes burnt
>Entropy II pleading
...really don't like the way that's going. You tried to help Isabella, and Entropy II is a friend (or is someone who could be a friend, at least). Their getting hurt because you tried to offer her something isn't right. And if you inadvertently caused this, that means you have a responsibility to make the outcome just. You're in not in a good position to oppose entropy directly, but I kind of feel like our displeasure should be felt. You do not approve.

>Lies, all they fight with is lies.
Possibly you could call him out on that. You fight with truths, yet you carry her words. That's not a lie. (Assuming his denial or disbelief is part of the current problem).

...although you would have to convey that without speaking, since you can't speak, while trying to keep the words in. (Some dramatic gesture? Communication via symbols or archetype almost seem appropriate given the powers here, and tarot theme).

Actually, are we still bleeding hope, or did that wear off, or did we leave what we'd built up at the shrine?

>I am the Sun, I Rise Anew.
Nice. Handy aspect of your nature, there.

PowderedLight 2014/08/08(Fri)10:37 No. 588721 ID: 1590e8

(This was playing as you entered https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=NwnlU4jPJY2IogTQpIEY&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%
3DUGFFl38STBk&cd=1&ved=0CBwQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNE4Mm8SpfYcWrQ16uvy3Ahvf_WRgQ&sig2=V5qdsvVN90R8B0LJMmaFnw )

(Mix - Demons & Wizards - Crimson King + Lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDC0rH6MX0s&list=RDnDC0rH6MX0s is playing now.)

> Nice.
Yes, yes it is.

> Calling him out.
Not sure what that would achieve?

> Hope.
It's hard to keep that going as I move. I can turn it on again though, I've got my hooks into here, I guess.

> Displeasure.

Yeah. I am not happy. Not sure who is really to blame here, though. I think something /big/ is happening.

>Not sure what that would achieve?
Probably nothing. It would only change the course if his actions hinged on believing they were lying. Which probably isn't the case. There's more at work here than that.

>hope?
No, I doubt that would fix or diffuse the situation. I was just wondering if we'd left the light on.

And yeah, I'd agree this looks big. Problem is we don't understand what's going on, and there's so much of your own capabilities unexploded. Makes doing anything very difficult, and possibly unwise. I don't like being stuck as a witness, again.

And if the words are still there, you're effectively mute, too.

Actions speak louder than words maybe. Entropy is lashing out. Maybe you could impose yourself? Move so you're standing in front of Isabella (or did she leave with her family?) or besides Entropy II. I don't think you can actually protect either of them from him, but maybe you can get him not to strike.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no... I'm pretty sure things here are not going to be resolved with a ray of hope and friendliness: We are in the stronghold of conflict, and he is set on conflict.
You are the sun, you rise anew, and you don't have patience for being abused like this. If he wants to be rude, well... I think the situation calls for a little cold certainty.

>I think the situation calls for a little cold certainty
...I have to say I'm not sure I like the sound of that at all. We haven't practiced working with Jasper when she's cold practically at all, and now seems a very bad time for unexpected consequences, or unexpected reactions on her part.

And if you're suggesting using the cold-eyes version of the hope aura- if we don't like where this is headed, enforcing "the future is already written" seems like it would only cement it. And even if cold-hope would reverse what we did before (assuming we're even right about our having triggering this) we're in the wrong region at the moment.

I'm not so sure those objections matter as much as you think they do: For starters, there is supposed to be a plan where we don't have a conflict with Entropy here and now and being able to see our way through to its end with our maximum benefit would work really well here. Further, Entropy is weakened after having just exercised his powers against the Titovs, and probably us as well, and his son really doesn't want this fight to happen at all either, so I'm not certain he even can win against us.

A fight is a destructive thing we generally don't want though, and you're possibly right that there's no way we can win either without the benefit of the other aspect of our power. So my second thought is:
"A plan, you had a plan to use me without my foreknowledge. Pray tell me, what was it you hoped to accomplish? If your hope is enough I would be disposed to compensate you for the difference."

>A plan, you had a plan to use me without my foreknowledge
I'm not sure we had any indication the plan Entropy II mentioned involved us at all. From the context, I assumed it was with regards to the unnamed power at work here, and Entropy not killing his son.

...and I'm still not sure if speech is even an option, or if Jasper is still trying to hold those dang words in.

No, when I came back from being vanished the paper I had writen it down on didn't come back with me. Given what Isabella and Entropy II said I think that destruction triggered things, but that seems to have let out the pressure that tempting me to speak them.

I don't like Entropy I, but I think don't like the thing under the shrine worse.

Oh, nice. Entropy's attack left you unharmed, but purged the hold she had on you. ...I wonder if that was intentional on his part?

>I don't like Entropy I, but I think don't like the thing under the shrine worse.
Fair.

Still, he's the one we're in a position to maybe do something about or influence, at the moment.

I gave us one option: Trying to intervene in whatever it is that's making Entropy focus on his son terrifyingly enough that he's begging for his life. A little cold certainty I figure is exactly what we need to make the most of our, and Entropy II's, options and abilities to come out of this with a minimum of damage.

Someone didn't like that option, so I came up with a second option of trying to distract him from his focus upon his son by demanding apology and compensation for our involvement in this mess. This option does seem iffy in terms of possibly getting Entropy angry at us instead (or as well).

If you don't like these plans, and of the two I think I like the first better, come up with another please.

I kind of like the stand between Entropy and Entropy. Also it might be time to go Big or go home, and I don't know how to go home.

And honestly I think some hope might be a good thing here. It backfired at the shrine because giving a prisoner hope sort of helps them mess with their captors.

But here. . here I think some hope might do a works of good.

So unless you guys think it's a terrible idea, I'm going to get between the Entropys and start becoming (Controlled) nuclear fire.

Thoughts.

...go for it, girl. I'm not sure hope will work here, but I think it has a better chance of working than anti-hope.

This is Horizon, too. Remember how we talked about strategies to function, before. Going big (literally or not) is the coping strategy. Be the monster among monsters, great and terrible to behold. Confidence and power.

Kind of fitting to wrap up this sequence by playing your own card- The Sun.

Another idea I had (not sure if it will still fit the mood during, or after, you do your sun-thin) but maybe you could make a point of formally thanking Entropy for releasing you from the hold of her words? Would certainly throw a wrench in the tone here, and it reinforces his position of power when he's feeling challenged, and gives him a way to back down without losing face (yes, that's why I lashed out. I meant to do that).

The Tower, The Beginning of the End. PowderedLight 2014/08/15(Fri)16:02 No. 589581 ID: 00b2db
File 140814372644.jpg - (101.19KB , 546x917 , The Moon.jpg )

I start to let go of my human-ish form, burning from the inside out.

It feels good.

"I think there's still hope! Hope that we can all be OK!" says Jasper her voice cracking from fear, from confusion, from air so bombarded with light, with energy that atomic nuclei are ripped bare, no longer a simple gas, but a plasma, lighting-coiled unending-self-moving.

Lord Entropy, Rex Mundi snarls backing up. "Jasper. Reigina of Hope and the Sun. I guess I should have paid attention to just who her heralds were."

As he gestures in contempt a stream of blood is is flicked off his hands, onto me, it sizzles, oh so sweet, so so so sweet.

It's much better fresh, way better then the lollipops, or the letter. With it comes images, feelings, thoughts:

I see buildings, beautiful monuments to justice and peace, covered in blood and reduced to rubble. I feel a husband's love turn into hate and exploitation. I see kids spray painting the church they were baptised in. I see conquerors build their temples over the conquered, as they justify their slavery with honey-ed words. And behind this all I see a smile.

His smile.

I see shadows. Shadows of bicycles, of people, of towns. Some created in instant with a flash of power. Others fading away over decades or centuries. I feel the seeds of their own endings in the righteous and the evil. I hear echoes of the languages lost into the void, of whole kinds of animal and plant gone, vanished. And behind it all is a rage.

His rage.

I feel heart after heart broken by cruel truths, or crueler lies. I feel a woman look up at her brother, killed by the British, knowing there will be no justice. I see a boy getting called "fag" by his peers. I feel a little girl's heart break as her father ignores the water color she painted. And behind it all is an laugh.

His laugh.

My stomach growls in renewed hunger. I can feel his evil, his raw malice. How much better the world would be without him.

The younger Entropy is doing something, drawing something from his belt.

>_

Two interesting points from Entropy's reaction. First of all, he apparently didn't recognize who you were until now. That's a surprising level of carelessness or recklessness for a being of his stature, even if indiscriminate anger or violence would suit his nature. It's notable than one Imperator can even catch another unawares like that- the sun isn't particularly suited to sneaking up on anyone.

Secondly, he backed up. You're in his realm, his region, his court, yet he still snarls and retreats when you reveal yourself. That was unexpected, to say the least. We may not be at as much of a disadvantage as I would have expected. (Unless that's deliberate, and he's goading us).

>How much better the world would be without him.
There are a few big problems to this line of thinking.

The first: what does the world become without him? When an imperator dies, what they represent vanishes from the world, becomes incomprehensible. Creation came apart at the seams without a sun. What does it becomes without entropy? How far does that go? Things don't wind down, or break? Everything continues until it's forced to not? Practical immortality- everything lives forever if not killed? Would people still age or change in that world? Would anything new even be possible, or would ay hope or creativity for the future stagnate, buried in the unceasing past? How far is his domain- would death still make sense in a would without entropy?

Yes, he represents terrible things, but I can't say with any degree of confidence the world would become a hell or paradise if that was removed. Or that it would continue to function, at all.

Secondly: Entropy deliberately flicked that blood at you. His first action since becoming aware of your presence- that's significant. Why did he do that? Did he hope to overwhelm or corrupt you in some manner? Possible, but given Entropy II's thoughts on how the blood would affect you when we discussed it previously, I doubt it. What I see as more likely- is he trying to provoke a reaction from you?

Possibly because if you tried to remove him, he expects he could win. He'd rather fight you (no fighting entropy, it wears all things down) than succumb to hope (hope persists, in spite of entropy. That's the point. Hope doesn't mean anything if there's no counter-force).

Or possibly, because if you tried to consume him, there's no way you could do that without changing yourself. What would you become with him? As bad as he is, the rise of a blood red sun might be worse.

All in all, I think trying to remove him from the picture right now would be a bad idea. Even if he does make the world ugly.

>the moon
Shines with the borrowed light of the sun. We had less of an effect than we wanted, we're weaker? Or we're just not at full strength yet, building towards the sunrise? And the card depicts the scarab with the sun. That could be seen as a bad omen for us- the scarab emblem is Entropy's- his holding the sun means power or control over us. Then again, his symbol was an inverted, black scarab. This one is right side up and illuminated. Khepri, rebirth, sunrise. Our symbol, not his.

Really could go either way from here. Ambiguous portents.

>also
Remember, your hope aura takes time to fully kick in. You hoped it would be able to change the course here, but if it's going to work, it probably hasn't been long enough, yet.

>Entropy II
I'm torn here. He might be doing something to diffuse the situation, or he might be taking advantage of your distracting his father to make his own preemptive play or attack. Do we let him act, or do we need to stall him as much as his father?

...I suppose if we're trusting to hope to fix this situation, we have to have faith in that. Trust that a good outcome is possible, and hope that he's going to further it.

Heh. It's tempting. Entropy the Elder is a big ol' booger that the world would probably be better without. And he'd be pretty tasty.

But on the other hand, every hint we have points to this having been dear old Dad's hope all along. If there's anyone that can gobble up an Evil King of the World, it's someone like us, and he's well-acquainted us with the flavor. The whole situation is inauspicious; it seems multiple Enemies of the World have contributed to setting it up, even if they probably didn't know how it'd happen. And just as important: what would Junior think, if we were to gobble up his dad right in front of him? That'd suck. We know firsthand how much that'd suck.

So we shouldn't eat Lord Entropy. Don't do that. If nothing else, his son doesn't deserve it.

But maybe just a lick...

Would the world be better without him? Possibly. This misses an important question: Without him, how much less of the world would be at all?

The Tower, End of Introductions PowderedLight 2014/08/17(Sun)13:02 No. 589867 ID: ff4834
File 140830573988.jpg - (133.55KB , 200x346 , justice_rx.jpg )

Right..right.

But he is right there, and smells so good.

A Figure appears in the doorway, behind me. Its kind of nice to be able to see all around me.

It looks like a prince or general, handsome, tall and righteous. "You called, young Master?" He says bowing.

----

Hang on, this is confusing. My instincts, my self, is very clear that if I can get anything in my mouth/stomach I can digest it. Anything..but my Mother and Father both were fairly clear that killing an Imperator with out a Abhorrent Weapon hasn't ever happened.

I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.

Oh skies above, he smells delicious. I really think if I started licking him I would just eat him up.

>Digest anything
>Abhorrent weapon needed to kill Imperiator.
He'd probably end up alive in your stomach, and get to cut his way out of you, or something, unless eating him/digesting him would count as an Abhorrent weapon.
...Have you heard of a Primidorial being able to eat Imperiators and what happened next? Might be useful as a potential outcome...

>justice, reversed
Fuuuuuuck. That can mean... something unfair or unjust happening, obviously. Or a failure to understand why something is happening, or to take responsibility. (Justice is all about causality, after all. Cause and effect). And given what's happening, it makes all too much sense if we're missing something important, or that we don't understand our own role.

Nevermind the fact that justice is something you stand for. One of your own standards inverted hardly seems favorable.

Only gets worse if the card represents the figure we allowed Entropy II to summon. The righteous man not here to balance the scales, but upset them further.

>Mother and Father both were fairly clear that killing an Imperator with out a Abhorrent Weapon hasn't ever happened
>I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.
...your father's bow being one, I assume?

Possible resolution: digestion isn't necessarily killing. It's converting one thing to another. That by which we take something outside of ourself and make it part of ourself. A star isn't an engine of destruction, but of fusion. My suspicion is that you wouldn't so much kill Entropy as change him, or make him part of yourself.

Or... other loop holes. Is there a limit to Entopy? An edge? The blood never stops, for one. If you couldn't ever fit all of him inside, you'd never kill him by eating. Like drinking from a faucet.

I still think trying to consume him is a bad idea, though.

>what do
Options. We've already played the hope card. It hasn't worked, yet. Being big seems to have prevented Entropy from striking, but it also let Entropy II put another (possibly ominous) piece on the board. We still have... the ability to manipulate light? I'm not sure what exactly we could do with that that would help, but we're generating a hell of a lot of light right now.

Can you speak, like this? One of the simplest options might be to ask Entropy II what he wants to happen here. If he opens up (due to the stress and the effects of hope?), we might be able to bind that hope into something relevant to resolving this.

Or uh, if a lick is too risky as a weird way to immobilize someone... maybe a hug?

>I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.
A memory springs unbidden to mind. >>/questarch/565309
>If you didn't want to eat her, that kiss wouldn't have turned out like it did, and she wouldn't be glaring at my sibling. What you don't want is to hurt her, and if you do it right, she might just survive. Even thrive.
>Whose arm is this? Yours right? Whose is it as I move it? What if I order you to grab something? What about the lice that live on its skin? The cells flaking off into the air? The germs trying to grow with in it? The food I eat to power it? Your light that powered the plants that became my food? My parents that protected me, and taught me? The pools that make my lively hood? The parishioners who pay us? The fishermen that catch the fish that feed the people that pay us? The ships that brought humans to fortitude in the first place? The rocks that hold us up here, right now?
>Ownership and identity seem simple at first..but they exist only as ..simplifications. Truth is formless.
If I had to guess, I'd say that to devour evil means to make it cease to be what it is, and thereby to transform it into something more suitable to being a part of you.

>Oh skies above, he smells delicious. I really think if I started licking him I would just eat him up.
Ah. Nevermind, then.

>>589884
>Can you speak, like this?
We live in a place where everyone's mutually intelligible. I'm sure there's some way to communicate. I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad, which means he's the one to ask - something along the lines of "what are you doing and do you need Help" - but because I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad, that also means I'm not sure I want to distract him, inauspicious symbols aside.

The one who just arrived. You said they are wearing a prince/general outfit? What color is it?

Suggestion 2014/08/18(Mon)07:56 No. 590008 ID: 4b571b

>inauspicious symbols
>I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad
You know, I wonder what it says that our impulse is to trust the person who was represented by the devil. Usually that represents deception of some kind, doesn't it? Although, in this context, maybe the bondage is more significant, or his status of the prince of darkness, besides the king.

It might also signify the threat he represents, or why Entropy would want to do away with him in the first place. The devil is a betrayer, he who turned on his lord and father.

It's kind of wierd that the devil card is really describing the Dark, at least mostly.

And I think The Emperor and the Devil might be about both of them.

I kind of think they are kind of the for me until I can grow a skin again. Sorry.

>prince/general outfit? What color is it?
White, with black and red trim. Entropy's symbol (the scarab inverted) is on his breast pocket. He carries a shining shield on his

So right now I am trying to stay in the center of the room and keep everyone away from everyone else while maybe thanking E1 and/or asking E2 what he is doing.

Thoughts?

Well, assuming the hope can work (and we have to, sort of. If we don't, we don't have it in the first place) anything that stalls for time is a good thing. So dialog helps.

I'd forgotten about thanking Entropy for releasing you from the words, but assuming they'll listen while you speak, formal court-talk is a good stall. And it sort of serves to stroke his ego, mollify him- he's in control, he meant to do that, he struck successful blow against the influence of someone he opposes. And you're sorry for entering unannounced, but you didn't have the chance to announce yourself prior.

Asking Entropy II could also stall, but it would also be trying to get him to play into the hope, or even given us a hope to catalyze or bind in such a way that it resolves things. Risky if it just prompts him to make a dangerous move, though.

...we've kind of already made our play here (hope card, going big figuratively and literally). And we've pretty much ruled out your other options (doing nothing, consumption). Which means how it's just a matter of seeing things through and hoping it works. I've no better ideas, at the moment.

Thread Three is Posted.