>>144806
That doesn't look like mind control to me. It's paralysis and warped perception of time. Also, you're exaggerating how "extreme" it is.

>>144808
"Doesn't look like"...? That is mind control, even the way you put it. And you left out some important parts. Argus not only made Kol completely immobile and drastically warped his mind's perception of time, he also hijacked all of his senses, overloaded his sense of pleasure, and rendered him incapable of thought during the experience. I'm not exaggerating how much of an escalation this is from what they were doing at the time.

And then there's the main issue, which is that Argus never gave Kol the ability to give or withdraw consent, despite telling him he had permission. Kol couldn't have consented beforehand because he had no idea it was coming, and he can't be said to have allowed it passively because he was unable to even process what was happening to him, let alone move, speak, or otherwise give any indication if he wanted it to stop, until Argus was finished.

By contrast, Argus also unexpectedly put Kol in bondage shortly prior to this, but there weren't any moral issues with that because Kol was still able to decide if he wanted Argus to continue, and would have been able to protest if he had felt otherwise. The same goes for most of the other things he's been doing. Argus clearly understands that he has certain responsibilities in how he treats Kol, but he failed to fulfill them and it's fair to tell him so.

>>144811
>hijacked all his senses
Oh, so showing someone a photo is hijacking their eyes now?

Either you're delusional or arguing in bad faith.

Like, Argus explained how it worked already. The vision they're having is from them seeing into Argus's mind. Even "hijacking" someone's senses is in the category of illusion, not mind control. Mind control is stuff where someone is made to do something against their will. You know, CONTROLLING someone's MIND? So it just sounds like you're playing with words to make it look way worse than it is.

Oh, as for not being able to think, I'm pretty sure that's because Kol was busy cumming his brains out.

We see firsthand that Kol is incapable of perceiving the world around him with any of his senses (or moving, speaking, or thinking) while Argus traps him in one of these scenes. We now know that Argus draws the scenes from his memory, but only that; the exact mechanics aren't as relevant as what Kol was forced to experience, and his experience was so overwhelming that we seriously thought it was time travel at first. A photograph doesn't come close to describing it.

As for the question of how much of Kol's mind Argus can take control of before it counts as "mind control", that's a matter of semantics. What matters is that this was done to him against his will. He was never able to say "no". If you think he did consent at some point and I missed it, then when and how did he?

Also, I don't appreciate the notion that I'm maliciously trying to demonize Argus. His scenario is what got my attention in the first place. When it comes to his actions, I'm trying to justify everything I can and forgive what I can't. It's only this one thing for which I'm forced to choose "forgiveness" because I can't logically justify it, but the first step towards forgiving him is to acknowledge that he did something bad to forgive. That's my immediate goal here: to call out Argus on violating his own morals, so that he'll realize what he did wrong and remember not to make the same mistake again.

Sure, you're saying that you're not demonizing Argus but you're constantly deflecting attempts to talk you down from the severity of the accusations. Yeah, it was intense. Intensely pleasurable. Yeah, they saw things they didn't understand or expect. Yet, they all agreed to be put in the Gallery. Heck, the original expectation was that they would be put on display themselves, as conscious art pieces, rather than sculptures created from moments recorded by Argus's mind. Kol thought it was time travel at first because that experience was sooner than expected, that's all.

Honestly what I think is really going on is you got super obsessed with the quest and kept making these really high effort (and frankly a bit cringe) RP posts in it, but the author doesn't seem to be going along with it so you're either lashing out at them (Toxoglossa has stated that the quest is founded on consent) or thinking that if you make a post that's super hard to ignore then you won't be ignored anymore.
buuuut I'm often a bit paranoid, so maybe you're just... I don't know, weird and dumb. Maybe you missed that Argus is a Fey creature and the mice all signed an actual Contract to be able to go on the heist, which included details regarding the penalty of being put on display in the Gallery.

>>144817
This has nothing to do with the fact that Toxo has only sometimes gone along with my suggestions. I'm perfectly fine with the story not exactly adhering to my personal kinks; we like different things, and it takes some adjustment to align my suggestions with what the author likes to write. That's just how questing goes. Like I said before, I'm here because it's been a very enjoyable experience and I'm glad to be able to participate as much as I have.

This isn't about that. This is about one particular issue that needed to be adressed: the bath scene was meant to be consensual, but it wasn't.

You've been downplaying the severity of Argus's actions by describing them inaccurately, e.g. comparing a full-sensory hallucination to looking at a photograph. I haven't found a truly valid excuse yet. As for you latest reasons:
"They signed the contract" doesn't work because they weren't informed of what it meant until they weren't able to refuse anymore, Kol wasn't informed that it would happen in the bath when he agreed to have sex there, and it being so different from what they were led to expect only makes it more true that Kol did not consent.
You addressed the fact that Kol's mind was so overloaded with unfamiliar sensations that he was incapable of thought by stating that he was "overloaded with pleasure". That doesn't happen from the kind of sex Kol agreed to (or from looking at a photograph). Calling the mind-breaking experience "pleasure" doesn't justify it in a situation where Kol did not consent.
Kol thought it was time travel not because it was "sooner than expected". I don't know how you came to that conclusion. He thought that he was sent to the future because he was forced to experience an immeasurably long period of time incapable of motion, thought, or perceiving the world around him. The entire time, he had absolutely no way to change his situation or communicate any possible distress, meaning that Kol did not consent.

Apart from that last one, I've already considered all these justifications and more, and they just don't work. The only thing I can think of that could work is the possibility that Kol is willing to forgive Argus if he takes responsibility for his actions.

Toxoglossa: What do think about this? Talking about it has been very stressful for me, and I'm sure it hasn't been easy on you, but I felt like I needed to say something and I don't know what else to do. Am I making any sense to you at all?

I'll be honest I just got back from having a really magical time at the con and I'm kind of fucking tired and stressed out about this too. I've been trying to work along with your suggestions but the intensity is, honestly, kind of creeping me out: particularly some of the stuff with Gabe's first sex scene and, like, wanting so see him punished and stuff. that was really kinda pushing some boundaries for me and I was kinda just trying to write past all that.

But that aside, I didnt fully explain what kind of magic they'd experience beforehand and that's on me and I apologize. Thats MY fault, not Argus's and I should do better as a writer. Its the first time Ive written something so kinky into the story and Im still figuring out how to balance around it. Consent is something I take really seriously in the story, and so Im gonna try and do better in the future. I dont intend to address it or confront Argus about it in the story because its my mistake, not Argus's and I dont intend to write him as someone who would violate consent like that.

>>1144831
I'm sorry. I didn't realize my enthusiasitc roleplaying was making you so uncomfortable. I was playing it up because I thought it enhanced the mood, and I thought you were having fun with it. I'll tone it down significantly from now on. You have my sincerest apologies for that, and for spoiling the good mood you had going.

For the Gabe thing, that was mostly from an elaborate and poorly-thought out plan that went something like this: Gabe freaks out over his situation, Argus comforts him and assures him that it won't be that bad, Gabe admits that he weirdly enjoys being afraid of Argus, and they agree to do some harsher kinky stuff together. In retrospect I fully realize what a bad idea this was and I won't try something like that again.

Now, about Argus. I've been pondering this a lot and I have a lot to say about it. No pressure to read all this while you're feeling stressed out, but I'm going to put all my thoughts out here so they're here whenever you're ready. Here goes:

We didn't need a full explanation of how his magic worked (and we still only partially know); it would have been valid if they knew they were going to experience something didn't fully understand. It would be an unknown factor, but a "known unknown" factor they could choose to experiment with. Casey and Gabe made that choice, but Kol couldn't. The core of the problem is that he didn't know that Argus was about to do it to him; if Argus had said something like "I'll show you what being put in my collection is like", then Kol would have known that something more than normal sex was about to happen, and he could choose to find out what it was, avoid the risk, or ask for more information first. The rest of the time, Argus was responsible enough that his partners could have refused or asked him to stop if they wanted to. It's only that one specific act that went too far.

As for Argus himself, it's sadly undeniable that he did in fact do something that's "out-of-character" for the person he wants to be. You wrote it that way without meaning to, but Argus actually did it in-story. It's an established fact of the narrative now, with or without acknowledgement. And it's not entirely against the characters' personalities. Argus is confident to a fault and used to feeling invincible, so he actually could get slightly careless in the worst possible way. And Kol has been noticeably more uncertain about being a servant than the other two, which wasn't meant to be related, but it could partially stem from a subconscious unease with what happened in the bath, even if he's been enjoying himself on a conscious level. And they would and should talk about it at some point, even if it happens "offscreen".

It's clear that Argus would deeply regret it once he understood what he did, and Kol could probably forgive him if he did something significant to make up for it. I've been pondering what he could do, and my best idea is that Argus "un-heals" the tooth that Kol knocked out and leaves a permanent gap in his smile. It won't significantly inconvenience him (just like, through sheer luck, Kol is much less traumatized than he could have been) and they won't ever have to bring it up in conversation, but it will always be there as a reminder of the time he got careless, and as a promise to himself and Kol that he'll never make the same mistake again. I had this elaborate scenario in mind where they decide not to have sex until Kol can beat him in a practice fight (by taking another tooth) in hopes that being strong enough to defend himself would help Kol feel less like a victim, but if you don't want to acknowledge it in-story, you could simply show Argus with a missing tooth to show that they addressed the issue without openly addressing it.

I don't want to put even more stress on you, but I have to note that Caleb is also to blame for what happened. He gave Kol incomplete information without a reason to think it was incomplete, even though he knew what Argus's gallery was like, setting his lover up to trap himself in a contract he didn't understand. Of course this isn't the kind of thing he'd do intentionally. Maybe Argus explained it to Caleb when he asked and Caleb assumed he'd do the same for Kol.

>>144832
No Im not doing this. I already told you that I wont be addressing it in the quest. Frankly, this is the kind of thing thats really starting to creep me out and make me upset. Given how enthusiastic you’ve been with suggestions throughout these scenes with Argus, and how much youve bent over backwards to insist “no no no I am enjoying this, but argus though…” it makes me feel like all of this concern about consent is disingenuous , and that its really more about fulfilling some specific type of fantasy or character moment, and at this point I can’t tell if you’re being genuine. Either way, I think you should step away from the quest for a bit because I’ve already said what Im going to say about it and im not interested in addressing it in the story itself

>>144833
I'm really not trying to do anything like that. I understand completely that the way I was posting made you uncomfortable and I would have stopped if I had known. I only brought up the issue with that scene because it didn't match the story you wanted to tell. It's not some backhanded plot to trick you into fulfilling a fantasy, I get that we don't have the same kinks and it has nothing to do with that. I'm honestly just giving my thoughts on how to handle something that bothered you about your story.

Well, I've said what I could. Sorry again for causing you so much distress. I really, truly, didn't have any idea that my exaggerated posting style was bothering you anywhere near this much.

To be clear, I've been deliberately exaggerating my enthusiasm this whole time because I thought you liked it. I thought you were enjoying it the same way I was and were trying to encourage me. I would have stopped if I had any idea it was upsetting you.

...I still need to clarify that my concerns genuinely have nothing to do with my enthusiasm. If you need a reason to believe me: I liked the bath scene when it first happened! I said as much at the time! If I was trying to put my kinks in the story, I'd keep praising it in hopes of seeing more things like it. It was only after I got used to the story you wanted to tell that I looked back and realized that scene didn't fit with it. The reason I was so verbose is to lay out my reasoning as clearly as possible for why it's so important to fix.

Simple version, if you ever want to look: Now that it's been written into the story, it's explicitly something Argus did once. Disregarding it only makes him remorseless about it. This is no longer a story where consent has never been violated, but it risks becoming a story where consent is violated and this is never treated as a bad thing.

I think that's all I need to clarify. I get that this has been a really bad day for you and I'm... not sorry for being the bearer of bad news. But I'm sorry for exaggerating my roleplaying that much. And I'm sorry for the whole Gabe thing, I fully realize I went way too far with that. And I'm just sorry in general. I promise that spoiling this experience for you was the last thing I ever meant to do. I'd try to end this on a positive note if I could, but... well, it's probably better to just rest for a little while. Maybe things will feel better tomorrow.

>>144836
I've already stated, twice, that Im not interested in addressing it in canon at this moment. If I figure out a good way to deal with it, I will but I'm not perfect and this story is not perfect. there's stuff that I think I fucked up writing: like Cecil fooling around with Gabe while high on plant spores, or litany deadnaming Vivian. I'm doing my best to keep the vibes comfy and establish consent at all times. I thought I had done enough to establish consent going into the scene with Kol: through his agreement to have sex, having Caleb explain earlier in the chapter that glamour's can't hurt you, and having the mice all see what "displaying" actually means.

I have already apologized and admitted I fucked up and taken responsibility. at this point, if you're still uncomfortable, I think that's on you and you should, I reiterate, step away from suggesting for a while. I'll be honest, I'm getting sick of this chapter as im sure some of the other readers are, and I just want to move on and not fucking linger on it. this was supposed to be a fun, kinky training arc but now its just dragging on and I dont even care.

>>144837
I thought you were upset with how the scene went because you agreed that Kol didn't have enough information to offer genuine consent.

I've previously shared an idea for how to show it was addressed in-universe without directly acknowledging it on-page if you don't want to ruin the mood. It was kind of buried in that giant post where I explained everything. I could post a simpler version if you want to read it.

I dont, I really dont. I read it and I already said no. Three times now. I've tried to be nice about asking you to chill out, but now I'm telling you: stop it. Im already having a miserable day dealing with con crud, I dont want to ban you from posting in my threads, but I will if you dont start respecting my boundaries.

>>144839
Okay. Sorry for dumping all of this on you right when you came back from a break. I've said about all I can say on the matter, so we'll just leave it unacknowledged from now on. I'll just assume Kol and Argus talked it out offscreen and I won't pressure you to do anything to show it. I genuinely thought you might have missed my idea and want to hear it, since it was buried at the end of an excessively long post and, with all the stress I've caused you already, it would be totally understandable if you skipped over it.

I will say that it was fine when it happened to Casey and Gabe, since they saw what happened to Kol and knew to expect the unexpected. That one rationale was valid. It's only when it happened to Kol that crossed a line; there wasn't a problem with anything else, and if it ever seemed like I was saying otherwise, that was just part of my ill-advised and overdone roleplaying.

Okay, I'm done for real now. I apologize again for causing so much stress with my behavior. In hindsight, I can see how hard it's been to be patient with me. From now on, if I decide tp participate in your quests I'll keep it appropriate to the thread's intended tone and significantly less overwrought.

Let's change the subject. On the remote chance of ending on a better note, is there anything you did like about any of my suggestions in the thread? It's fine if you don't feel like answering, or if you want to wait until you're in a better mood before dealing with me again. But it might help to think of something more positive.

>>144840
Wait, no, ignore that last question. This is definitely not the right time.

If I can stick my oar in here as a first time commenter on this thread; I don't think that Argus as a character has too much to apologize for. There was, as previously stated, a contract and in story Tox showed what would happen to those defeated. I feel like the exact manner of said display tripped some alarm bells in how it was described, since it was some magical bullshit. Was it the most ethical BDSM scene? Probably not. Could it have been fixed with a line or two from Argus? Perhaps! Is it worth getting upset about? In my opinion, no. And here's why: it's human. It's human to sometimes forget things and accidentally omit something or other in exact detail, and while that was an experience Kol couldn't have known to anticipate, he lives in that world and could reasonably anticipate some fey magic bullshit with the exact manner of his being put on display, especially with gates not working as they usually do to begin with. And since they did sign the contract and basically consented to being put on display should they lose -- which they did -- the only unknown factor is the exact manner of their display. Which was, again, fey bullshit. They, and Kol, have experience with fey and fey bullshit. That being put on display entailed magic that altered their perception so they could, briefly, experience the moment of their orgasm stretched out while the "camera" captured it... yeah.

But again, it's human to forget detailing or warning about the exact details, especially when Argus in particular is taking that mouse to pound town and getting off his own self

>>144842
You're definitely going too far here, and I say that as someone who's been making that mistake for a while now. I disagree for previously stated reasons, but I won't repeat myself again because Toxo wants to drop the subject and so do I.

We're fine with Argus as a charachter and that's the bottom line.

most lewd training montage I've seen, for all I only sporadically check this site.

But at two cycles through the characters, starting to feel a bit long

You should just move on
You can't change the past, worry about the future

Like wether or not you should suggest to see more mouse butt, or if we've got enough mouse butt already

Could you delete the massive, unpleasant argument that goes from >>144806 to >>144843 in this thread? It resolves some genuine issues with the quest's content, but those are better addressed with a more concise summary, if at all.

All I can really say is that I've more or less lost all interest in the quest. This has gone on for too long, the characters have been warped too far, and for someone who doesn't really enjoy these kinks, it doesn't feel... great. At all. It's borderline triggering to some of my worst moments. Just...


Not fun anymore.

Sorry, Toxo, you just lost me. :/

Its worrying, such heavy submission isn't my cup of tea either, but I trust our mice. And they seem to be enjoying themselves.

>>144877
I just don't see the characters being remotely similar to how they were before after this. If there is an after this. It's growing to encompass more and more of the thread, and just doesn't seem to have a logical or meaningful endpoint. I hate to just hide it forever, but if the consensus is enjoying this, why would they ever stop?

>>144878
(Not to mention just circling back to it again later.)

>>144876
Yeah that’s understandable, Im trying to wrap up this chapter and move on to something more comfy, but its still got a bit to go

>>144868
>>144872
I'll always like more time with Argus, but it's ultimately a matter of how long Toxo stays interested in it. There are enough potential scenes for this specific story - the Long Howl, for example, or helping Argus with combat training - that it could stay fresh for a little while longer. As long as the author still has ideas he'd like to draw, then this is the time.

>>144876
But yeah, this must be unpleasant for readers who aren't as into it as I am. We've been doing harem roleplaying for... almost half the thread now, I believe.

One solution would have been to have two concurrent threads going on, one with the mice living with Argus, and one with the other characters having their own adventure while they're gone. That way, anyone who isn't interested in the former would have something else to participate in. It would have been a lot of effort, though.

>>144881
consensus is consensus, and no matter what, content that some people like will eclipse that which others do. Just because it sends me down a godawful rabbit hole of specific and personal emotion doesn't mean I should be toxic about it, especially in a quest I read perhaps once a month or so.

It is, however, running terribly long, and feels like it will irreversibly change aspects of the characters, and I don't know. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the fact that I didn't see any real chance for players to ripcord out (that I saw?) and so I felt trapped reading it, but at the end of the day, again, people voted, and even if I had voted otherwise it would have hardly mattered, so I don't really have a leg to stand on and be mad. I'm sure once it's done with the cycle will continue and I'll, again, stop reading long enough to miss another vote and get myself angry again, which is why I'm posting this, to remind myself not to do one or the other. And to apologize for Toxo catching strays from my own shitty past. :v

>>144882
It might have helped if we had refused Argus's commands once or twice. We were told we could have done that, but we never did; the contract was for general service as repayment for taking the Aegis, but we weren't required to provide sexual service in particular if we didn't want to. Showing a bit of reluctance at some point would serve as a reminder that we're allowed to say "no" and that whatever else we do is our own choice. But we're nearly done, the moment has passed now.

Still, I'll keep your worries in mind when I'm writing suggestions. Next time we get a chance to indulge in submissive play I'll try to negotiate a less binding agreement.

>>144883
WHen would that have mattered? All that reluctance would have done is played into the BDSM bit and resulted in it getting more extreme, unless you wanted it to simply end. And I didn't exactly see a point where any decisions were really being made, to be honest, it was just one long cutscene with players commenting. Didn't really seem like there was any direction we were making, as far as I could see, which made me feel even worse. People voted on one thing and half the thread vanished into an extensive [YOU SHOULD NOT READ THIS FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH] on my part.

>>144883
Also, it's not your fault for writing *suggestions* for heaven's sake. Everyone is entitled to their own votes!

>>144884
Things would most likely have gotten less extreme if we decided to object to something Argus did. He's always* been careful to get our approval, or at least give us a chance to object, before he did sexual things with us. Though I don't blame you for not reading that closely, given how distressing the whole scenario is for you.

There was actually a point where he gagged Kol, and I suggested trying to struggle away from him specifically to make sure he'd still respect our rights if we couldn't verbally object. Kol didn't do that, so it's technically just speculation how Argus would react, but all signs indicate that he would have backed off if we wanted.

*Except that one time, but that's a writing error that doesn't make sense with the characters or the plot.

>>144886
Honestly, I think all I need is an assurance that this isn't going to alter the characters fundamentally, or change them, or unmake them personality-wise. That's what I'm concerned about, because I love this quest for the characters and their dynamic, and I fear that being washed away for all of this.
Because this is months of mental realignment. This is weeks of extreme power exchange. people are openly fantasizing about what I'm deeply worried about. I am really scared of losing the thing I like about the thing that I like and honestly it feels like some people are now gloating about that open fear, and I can't really do anything but sit here and feel helpless.

>>144906
That's mostly just exaggeration for the sake of indulging in the fantasy. Even I, the most enthusiastic Argus enjoyer, don't expect (or want) the characters to be fundamentally changed much.

Gabe is turning out just the way I had hoped: he enjoys kinky sex acts that involve him being bullied or tormented, and he acts timid and panicky during the act, but afterwards he goes back to his usual laid-back, cheerful self, none the worse for wear.
Casey is accepting that she can be happy without being... vain, or ambitious, or "elite", or whatever you might call it. Something about social hierarchy. She's still going to be that person, but with a new confidence that it's something she likes and not something she owes herself.
Kol has someone to go back to when this is over. He's the most likely to be unchanged by the experience. He's generally just been going along with things, not changing how he thinks or feels; at worst, this will just be another job to him, and if the others ever start to lose themselves, he'll be around to keep them stable.

From what I can tell, the three mice will be the same people at the end of this experience that they were at the beginning, just with a new friend, more skills, and maybe some new hobbies. They might look a little different, but they'll be fundamentally the same; Casey with a new collar is still going to act like Casey without the collar. If you miss the characters you knew and loved, they'll be back soon.

>>144907
>Hey, can we stop? I'm really worried about the consent of this.

>>I'm sure if someone asked to slow down, we'd slow down, even though it didn't happen specifically when I did, even when the character specifically ignored it! Even though I brought up concerns about this!

>Well, I'd just like us to stop.

>>Oh, cool. Can we keep going, just a little to one side?

>No, I'd really like to stop.

>>Sure, sure. Can we have a looming possibility of constantly coming back to this in my pocket? I really like it.

>I'm terrified of the characters being changed.

>>They're not changing!

>>>*whispered* here's how they'll change. I think it's neat and can't wait to see it happen.


I

Lun

have you been spending the last couple days trying to piss me off, or something? Like, me specifically, are you just trying to ruin my day? Every single attempt from you to soothe a really rough time or simply vote so I can dust my hands and step away and relax has lead to you directly attempting to undo those efforts, seemingly. I'm not asking you to, like, not vote for what you want, but can you stop trying to directly antagonize me?

>>144909
All I'm saying is that there's every indication that the characters will still be their normal, healthy selves when this is done. They're not going to be traumatized or brainwashed or anything like that. At most, they'll find new kinks that they enjoy, but that's all. Everything "normal" about them will still be there.

>>144910
Can I at least ask that you stop wink wink nod nod slapping me in the ass with every single god damn suggestion you make after I told you how bad this shit makes me feel

>>144910
Lun, you’ve already been warned. Now you’re harassing people who have repeatedly asked you to stop and are brining up the SAME ARGUMENT that got you banned in the thread. Get out. You are not welcome in my threads, and if I see you posting again I will ban you

>>144913
Sorry I didnt step in sooner about this situation. I dont check the disthread that often.

>>144906
Also, to address your concerns: I have no intention of changing the characters personality wise or make them permanently Argus’s subs or anything like that.

>>144916
Thanks, boss. I was, on some level, spealimg from an emotive place, but its good to have reassurance.

Hey uh, I'm pretty sure that if someone gets sex because they're disguised/claiming to be someone else, that's sex under false pretenses and a violation of consent.
What exactly happens in the setting when consent is violated?

>>145547
in my experience, the audience gets reminded that this is a lighthearted story about people who solve 75% of their problems with fun sexcapades, and those demanding black and white real-world morality for their fiction are welcome to find another one.

>>145548
wow ok.

Gabe is a goober, but he’s not an idiot. Even if he isn’t aware of the changelings, he knows that something is up with “kol”, but is still down for a quickie. If i wanted him to have perfect information, i could have just had nixxy and fennel say “oh btw theres fakes running around, make them nut to defeat them.” But… thats just boring as hell? Its like what’s even the point of having changelings if everyone immediately gets to sus them out?

Like, anyone who’s been reading my stuff knows that consent is always a major concern. But this is a story and honestly after the hand wringing i got last chapter over trying to write some fun, fantasy bsdm, like… im kinda tired of people going “uh wait that technically isn’t informed consent.” Sorry but like, im just doing this shit for fun okay?

>>145551
>Gabe thinks something is up with "Kol"
Uh, okay, you didn't really convey that in the update though. Gabe was "ignoring red flags", accepting all explanation, and making internal excuses for anything that was different. It didn't look like he was considering the possibility that it wasn't Kol.